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Powell
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William
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Joined: 30 Mar 2005
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 Posted: Tue 04 Mar 2008 04:48 Post subject: |
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| I clicked the top link. Hah -- the "research" they did was via Wikipedia. They claim corroboration from answers.com. As far as I can tell, answers.com merely mirrors what is on Wiki. J. A. Rogers did write about "Black" Presidents (though not Eisenhower) but so much of this supposed African ancestry is based on hearsay and speculation. I like his Sex and Race books, and although some of the data is historically accurate, some is flimsy and based on hearsay or eyeballing to look for "negroid" traits, whatever that meant to him or the person he was quoting. |
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Powell
Guru
Joined: 27 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Tue 04 Mar 2008 05:42 Post subject: Eisenhower |
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| William wrote: | | I clicked the top link. Hah -- the "research" they did was via Wikipedia. They claim corroboration from answers.com. As far as I can tell, answers.com merely mirrors what is on Wiki. J. A. Rogers did write about "Black" Presidents (though not Eisenhower) but so much of this supposed African ancestry is based on hearsay and speculation. I like his Sex and Race books, and although some of the data is historically accurate, some is flimsy and based on hearsay or eyeballing to look for "negroid" traits, whatever that meant to him or the person he was quoting. |
Exactly! The point is that too many "black" American elites are probably in love with the ODR because they think they need to claim all the "blacks" they can for the "racial resume."
Check out this "scholarly" web site and do a search for "Eisenhower."
http://www.h-net.org/~afro-am/ |
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ArabianKnight
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Joined: 18 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Fri 04 Apr 2008 16:04 Post subject: |
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Very intersting they were romours that his mother was of partial African decent.
Eisenhowever didn't he end the seregation in the South |
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anonymouse
Wizard
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
{Posts: 603 }
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| Posted: Fri 04 Apr 2008 18:17 Post subject: Re: Eisenhower |
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| Powell wrote: | | William wrote: | | I clicked the top link. Hah -- the "research" they did was via Wikipedia. They claim corroboration from answers.com. As far as I can tell, answers.com merely mirrors what is on Wiki. J. A. Rogers did write about "Black" Presidents (though not Eisenhower) but so much of this supposed African ancestry is based on hearsay and speculation. I like his Sex and Race books, and although some of the data is historically accurate, some is flimsy and based on hearsay or eyeballing to look for "negroid" traits, whatever that meant to him or the person he was quoting. |
Exactly! The point is that too many "black" American elites are probably in love with the ODR because they think they need to claim all the "blacks" they can for the "racial resume."
Check out this "scholarly" web site and do a search for "Eisenhower."
http://www.h-net.org/~afro-am/ |
Who are these "black" American elites that you constantly refer to? And what is this racial resume that you speak of? |
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G-Man
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Joined: 27 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Sat 14 Jun 2008 16:38 Post subject: |
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| ArabianKnight wrote: | Very intersting they were romours that his mother was of partial African decent.
Eisenhowever didn't he end the seregation in the South |
No the Supreme Court ruled separate and unequal unconstitutional in Brown vs. the Board of Education. What he did do was send the National Guard to schools in the South when the schools were desegregating. |
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sagascend
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Mon 16 Jun 2008 17:10 Post subject: |
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| Powell wrote: | | Exactly! The point is that too many "black" American elites are probably in love with the ODR because they think they need to claim all the "blacks" they can for the "racial resume." |
My problem with your statement is that, if one assumes that the five presidents in question identified as White men, wouldn't multiracialist elites be "claiming" them as "mixed" for this emerging "racial resume?" If six on one hand half dozen on the other to me and not really worth exploring aside from the observed need among modern-day ethnopolitical blocs to repurpose historical figures to fit in with current objectives. Black Americans are hardly unique in this regard.
I also believe that this "claiming" notion is a blunt-force rhetorical tool that lacks nuance and depth but stirs up emotions. My perspective on this, validated by listening and trying to understand what people mean when they call someone "black" is that USAmericans have a much more complex and also contradictory notion of what it means to be "black." This has led me to conclude that what most USAmericans mean (most of the time) when they call someone "black" is that they are of known SSA ancestry. Not that they are African American. Not that they are not some other nationality or are not "racially" mixed. Since the ODR literally means that if you have any amount of SSA ancestry, you are Black, doesn't that make sense?
If Eisenhower has an ancestor who had significant SSA, how else would a person raised in a society with the ODR articulate this finding?
I see no evidence that even the most ardent ODR supporter who is Black American seeks to appropriate Eisenhower or other presidents as "literal" Blacks. It seems to me that these discussions might even arise out of a need to explain why a White person would go against the grain of White supremacy and do anything that appeared to support (rather than denigrate) the humanity of Black people? To a person who thinks this way, Lincoln freeing the slaves or Eisenhower integrating the military "makes sense" because these men felt a cultural kinship with Black Americans, however hidden.
Indeed, weren't some of the court cases brought against alleged closet Blacks due to their willingness to treat Blacks with respect? It's almost like the general mindset in this country cannot conceive of people without race-based allegiances, whether visible, stated or hidden. |
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Powell
Guru
Joined: 27 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Mon 16 Jun 2008 21:18 Post subject: Eisenhower |
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| sagascend wrote: | | Powell wrote: | | Exactly! The point is that too many "black" American elites are probably in love with the ODR because they think they need to claim all the "blacks" they can for the "racial resume." |
My problem with your statement is that, if one assumes that the five presidents in question identified as White men, wouldn't multiracialist elites be "claiming" them as "mixed" for this emerging "racial resume?" If six on one hand half dozen on the other to me and not really worth exploring aside from the observed need among modern-day ethnopolitical blocs to repurpose historical figures to fit in with current objectives. Black Americans are hardly unique in this regard.
What "multiracialist elites" are you talking about? Eisenhower would be a white person with (possibly) some recent mixed ancestry. There is no clear boundary between the "pure" white, the "mixed" white, and even the physical white who has been taught to not identify himself as white. I am referring to physical Euro phenotype, not "choice."
I also believe that this "claiming" notion is a blunt-force rhetorical tool that lacks nuance and depth but stirs up emotions. My perspective on this, validated by listening and trying to understand what people mean when they call someone "black" is that USAmericans have a much more complex and also contradictory notion of what it means to be "black." This has led me to conclude that what most USAmericans mean (most of the time) when they call someone "black" is that they are of known SSA ancestry. Not that they are African American. Not that they are not some other nationality or are not "racially" mixed. Since the ODR literally means that if you have any amount of SSA ancestry, you are Black, doesn't that make sense?
If Eisenhower has an ancestor who had significant SSA, how else would a person raised in a society with the ODR articulate this finding?
I see no evidence that even the most ardent ODR supporter who is Black American seeks to appropriate Eisenhower or other presidents as "literal" Blacks. It seems to me that these discussions might even arise out of a need to explain why a White person would go against the grain of White supremacy and do anything that appeared to support (rather than denigrate) the humanity of Black people? To a person who thinks this way, Lincoln freeing the slaves or Eisenhower integrating the military "makes sense" because these men felt a cultural kinship with Black Americans, however hidden.
Indeed, weren't some of the court cases brought against alleged closet Blacks due to their willingness to treat Blacks with respect? It's almost like the general mindset in this country cannot conceive of people without race-based allegiances, whether visible, stated or hidden. |
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