Sweetcocoa wrote: I think some blacks do get angry at biracial people and are suspicious of people who look pretty black claiming another ancestry because of the well know stigma against blackness. They perceive that such people are trying to prove they are better and the whole history of the "buffer race" of "coloreds" bringing double oppression down on blacks rears it ugly head.
MP: What is your definition of pretty black? The Halle Berry look? Lisa Bonet? Wentworth miller? Vin Diesel?
What do you men by pretty, are you talking about any visible signs of black ancestry that shows up in the physical body?
How many African Americans don't go after Wentworth Miller and Vin Diesel? These men both admit that they have black fathers and white mothers yet African Americans don't bother them constantly by putting the ODR on them because Vin and Went (Wentworth) have phenotypes that look too white.
Halle Berry, Tiger Woods, Alica Keys and Lisa Bonet are all biracial but show visible signs of black ancestry so African Americans fell comfortable putting the ODR on them.
MP: What is your definition of pretty black? The Halle Berry look? Lisa Bonet? Wentworth miller? Vin Diesel?
What do you men by pretty, are you talking about any visible signs of black ancestry that shows up in the physical body?
How many African Americans don't go after Wentworth Miller and Vin Diesel? These men both admit that they have black fathers and white mothers yet African Americans don't bother them constantly by putting the ODR on them because Vin and Went (Wentworth) have phenotypes that look too white.
Halle Berry, Tiger Woods, Alica Keys and Lisa Bonet are all biracial but show visible signs of black ancestry so African Americans fell comfortable putting the ODR on them. [/size][/quote]
What do you mean go after these biracial people? Embracing them as part of the AA community? What's so terrible about that?
By "pretty" black, yes, obviously I mean these people quite obviously have African ancestry. When I first saw Halle, I had no idea she was biracial. When I first saw Mariah Carey, I knew she had some black ancestry. So when biracial people's ancestry is apparent from the eye test, yes, people will consider them black. They are black! They are white as well, but society will never consider them such because of the ODR. Or more specificially the dominant white society. Not unless they do look like Vin Diesel or Wentworth or Jennifer Beals, each of whom are accepted because their phenotype is white enough looking for Hollywood.
MP: What is your definition of pretty black? The Halle Berry look? Lisa Bonet? Wentworth miller? Vin Diesel?
What do you men by pretty, are you talking about any visible signs of black ancestry that shows up in the physical body?
How many African Americans don't go after Wentworth Miller and Vin Diesel? These men both admit that they have black fathers and white mothers yet African Americans don't bother them constantly by putting the ODR on them because Vin and Went (Wentworth) have phenotypes that look too white.
Halle Berry, Tiger Woods, Alica Keys and Lisa Bonet are all biracial but show visible signs of black ancestry so African Americans fell comfortable putting the ODR on them. [/size]
What do you mean go after these biracial people? Embracing them as part of the AA community? What's so terrible about that?
By "pretty" black, yes, obviously I mean these people quite obviously have African ancestry. When I first saw Halle, I had no idea she was biracial. When I first saw Mariah Carey, I knew she had some black ancestry. So when biracial people's ancestry is apparent from the eye test, yes, people will consider them black. They are black! They are white as well, but society will never consider them such because of the ODR. Or more specificially the dominant white society. Not unless they do look like Vin Diesel or Wentworth or Jennifer Beals, each of whom are accepted because their phenotype is white enough looking for Hollywood.[/quote]
MP: But wait a minute the ODR was actually created to to go after people who look like Wentworth Miller and Vin Diesel in phenotype, and not those with visible black ancestry. There are some people born to two black identified parents and they come out white like Vin Diesel and Wentworth Miller and when these people are kids, teenagers, and even when go to college they are identified African American but after college they switch to calling themselves white. Now African Americans don't bother them because they can't recognize them. Long ago in the 1960s these types of people if they go outed black Americans and whites would have looked down on them for doing this, but today the average African American and white person just leave these people alone because their phenotype are white.
On top of that SweetCocoa you did not answer my question below. I guess you knew you put yourself in semi embarrassing situation by some of your comments that seem to contridict each other.
The question below
Mp: Some of your post are confusing because you advocated to some degree black of all tones being should be black on other post. Now you are saying you are going to have a bi racial child who will be mixed with white. Yet you accused me on another post of feeling superior because I am bi racial, and will get some benefits because of being biracial mixed.
Yet you are wanting to have a bi racial child. You also criticized on other post other people who are light skinned blacks as wanting to escape blackness because of the stigma that is attached to being black. In my opinion if you have a mixed race phenotype, and you want to escape unjustifiable persecution you have every right too.
From my observation a light skin black is a mixed race person, they have every right to identify mixed race instead of black only. The only way they can do this is to accept and acknowledge that they are mixed race and stop calling themselves black or African Americans only. They need to call themselves mixed race or some name that will come across as mixed race. The black race is a racial group not an ethnic group like Hispanics. Some light skin blacks prefer to be labeled and called African American and they should have that right. I say if there are mixed race people who want to be labeled separate then leave them alone and let them go. There must be some value in having them around. On top o that you said you are going to have bi racial children – how come you did not choose to have a mate from your ethnic group? Love comes in all shades I know but still you could chosen a mate from your own race.
You also said or insinuated that African Americans come in all colors and even white. But you now say that you will tell your children that they will be treated according to how they look (black or white).
Yet many of those so called white looking blacks are treated as white and they are born to two black identified parents. And, society and African Americans view these people as white. You seen to be unhappy with light skin blacks who accept they are mixed and yet you said you will teach your biracial kids to accept that they are black and white. Yet some of these so called light skin blacks when they acknowledge they are mixed they are called self hatred filled and running away from being black Americans.
You insinuated that many are trying to get away from being black (African American) by wanting to be mixed race. Yet you want your kids to honor their white ancestry but yet don't want light skin blacks to honor their white ancestry. You come across as filled with contradictions.
This why I say let be and live their lives according to how they want to live.
Mariah Carey is the product of a black Venezuelan father and white mother she is not a part of the African American ethnic racial group. The Latino world does not have an ODR. There are Arabs and Latinos who have visible black ancestry but African Americans don't bother putting the ODR on them either how come there is a reason?
Sweetcocoa wrote: I think some blacks do get angry at biracial people and are suspicious of people who look pretty black claiming another ancestry because of the well know stigma against blackness. They perceive that such people are trying to prove they are better and the whole history of the "buffer race" of "coloreds" bringing double oppression down on blacks rears it ugly head.
MP: What is your definition of pretty black? The Halle Berry look? Lisa Bonet? Wentworth miller? Vin Diesel?
What do you men by pretty, are you talking about any visible signs of black ancestry that shows up in the physical body?
How many African Americans don't go after Wentworth Miller and Vin Diesel? These men both admit that they have black fathers and white mothers yet African Americans don't bother them constantly by putting the ODR on them because Vin and Went (Wentworth) have phenotypes that look too white.
Halle Berry, Tiger Woods, Alica Keys and Lisa Bonet are all biracial but show visible signs of black ancestry so African Americans fell comfortable putting the ODR on them.
The reality is that there are many 'African-Americans' who see people as mixed or biracial. I've talked to a good number of men and women from my parents generation who consider Tiger Woods mixed. The others identify as Black so nobody is going after them to make them be anything.
Mariah Carey is the product of a black Venezuelan father and white mother she is not a part of the African American ethnic racial group. The Latino world does not have an ODR. There are Arabs and Latinos who have visible black ancestry but African Americans don't bother putting the ODR on them either how come there is a reason?
From my understanding the fathers mother is Black-American, maybe the Venezuelan ancestry comes from his fathers side? But Mariah has no 'Venezuelan' culture. It comes from her black grandmother who had a large part of raising her, the african-american cultures prevailant in NYC, the black pentecostal church she grew up (where she learned how to SANG) the white mother who raised her passing on her specific family heritage(Irish) and the classical music classes (where she learned to SIIING).
Posted: Wed 20 Feb 2008 17:44 Post subject: St. Louis Magazine Names French “Best Blogger”
St. Louis Magazine Names French “Best Blogger”
July 20th, 2007 | Category: Antonio French
The their July issue, the editors of St. Louis Magazine have named Antonio French to its annual “A-List” as the best blogger in St. Louis.
French Bread
Tue Jun 26, 2007 at 03:29:30 PM
pubdef.net
For the past two years, PubDef.net blogger Antonio French has proved one of the most dogged followers of the ongoing St. Louis Public Schools soap opera.
Straddling the line between columnist and reporter, French has frequently managed to break news while simultaneously delivering harsh critiques against the former Clinkscale-Schoemehl-Jackson-Archibald board majority and its two superintendent picks, William Roberti (Class of '03-'04) and Creg Williams ('05-'06).
Members of American Federation of Teachers Local 420 and their supporters turned often to PubDef.net for confirmation of their theory that St. Louis Mayor Francis Slay "and his cronies" were plotting to dismantle the cash-poor and crippled school system.
Most recently French griped about the Missouri Department of Elementary and Secondary Education's controversial decision to set up a three-person transitional board to take over the district.
But now French might have lost his street cred.
Not long ago SLPS parent and gadfly Susan Turk -- who took up where Peter Downs left off with his St. Louis Schools Watch opinion sheet on the SLPS -- figured out that PubDef.net doesn't put food on French's table.
In fact, he's been a political consultant for a couple years, and his business, A.D. French & Associates, recently ran Lewis Reed's campaign for the presidency of the St. Louis Board of Aldermen.
Turk blew a fuse, then fired off an e-mail to Schools Watch and PUBDef readers:
MP: But wait a minute the ODR was actually created to to go after people who look like Wentworth Miller and Vin Diesel in phenotype, and not those with visible black ancestry. There are some people born to two black identified parents and they come out white like Vin Diesel and Wentworth Miller and when these people are kids, teenagers, and even when go to college they are identified African American but after college they switch to calling themselves white. Now African Americans don't bother them because they can't recognize them. Long ago in the 1960s these types of people if they go outed black Americans and whites would have looked down on them for doing this, but today the average African American and white person just leave these people alone because their phenotype are white.
On top of that SweetCocoa you did not answer my question below. I guess you knew you put yourself in semi embarrassing situation by some of your comments that seem to contridict each other.
The question below
Mp: Some of your post are confusing because you advocated to some degree black of all tones being should be black on other post. Now you are saying you are going to have a bi racial child who will be mixed with white. Yet you accused me on another post of feeling superior because I am bi racial, and will get some benefits because of being biracial mixed.
Yet you are wanting to have a bi racial child. You also criticized on other post other people who are light skinned blacks as wanting to escape blackness because of the stigma that is attached to being black. In my opinion if you have a mixed race phenotype, and you want to escape unjustifiable persecution you have every right too.
From my observation a light skin black is a mixed race person, they have every right to identify mixed race instead of black only. The only way they can do this is to accept and acknowledge that they are mixed race and stop calling themselves black or African Americans only. They need to call themselves mixed race or some name that will come across as mixed race. The black race is a racial group not an ethnic group like Hispanics. Some light skin blacks prefer to be labeled and called African American and they should have that right. I say if there are mixed race people who want to be labeled separate then leave them alone and let them go. There must be some value in having them around. On top o that you said you are going to have bi racial children – how come you did not choose to have a mate from your ethnic group? Love comes in all shades I know but still you could chosen a mate from your own race.
You also said or insinuated that African Americans come in all colors and even white. But you now say that you will tell your children that they will be treated according to how they look (black or white).
Yet many of those so called white looking blacks are treated as white and they are born to two black identified parents. And, society and African Americans view these people as white. You seen to be unhappy with light skin blacks who accept they are mixed and yet you said you will teach your biracial kids to accept that they are black and white. Yet some of these so called light skin blacks when they acknowledge they are mixed they are called self hatred filled and running away from being black Americans.
You insinuated that many are trying to get away from being black (African American) by wanting to be mixed race. Yet you want your kids to honor their white ancestry but yet don't want light skin blacks to honor their white ancestry. You come across as filled with contradictions.
This why I say let be and live their lives according to how they want to live.
what i want to know is, WHY do you think it's okay for a light skinned african american to call themselves mixed?
would you allow a darker skinned person to call themselves mixed?
there are actually MIXED people who are DARK.
Such as Tyson Beckford. There are many young black boys who are as dark as tyson and might even have his features yet if they called themselves mixed it would be a crime. They would be a laughing stock.
Yet it's "okay" for a light skinned person who is not mixed to call themselves mixed.
That makes no sense to me whatsoever. Especially if a kid comes from the same mother and father and have two different skin tones. The Run family? His two eldest daughters and his son have completely different skin tones. All three come from the same mother and father. Yet ... you would say that Vanessa and Angela are mixed and their brother isn't.
If a light skinned person is multigenerational mixed then a darker skinned person can be, too. And if not then you should not say that lighter skinned blacks are mixed. Just keep it at biracial and black.
'
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