According to Wikipedia there are 25,000 Dominicans of German ancestry, which is very small when you consider how big the German diaspora population is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_people
The majority of Dominicans I come into contact with (I am Dominican) often state the following general demographics of DR:
-Cibao region (the north) has the highest percentage of light and/or white
-The east (el Este), especially San Pedro de Macoris have the highest percentages of dark and/or black (traditionally this is the region that produces the majority of baseball players)
-The south (El Sur) has the highest percentages of mixed
-Santo Domingo (the capital) & San Cristobal, also a large percentage of dark and/or black.
Of course this does not mean that you will see pure populations in any region, you will see black Cibaenos, white Macorisanos, and everything in between.
As far as Puerto Ricans go, it varies by region (Loaiza very high percentage of Afrodescendancy). But I agree with you, the Puerto Ricans I grew up (NJ/NYC/MA) with seemed more mixed than the ones I came across in San Juan. But then again, I didn't travel the whole Island, so my observations are pretty limited. I hate making blanket statements based on limited exposures to segments of a population.
Thanks for your input, Cimmerian. I haven't done any travelling in the Caribbean. I've been all through Europe, parts of North Africa and South Africa, western Asia, and even India, but Latin America and the Caribbean are next on my list. I've only been to Costa Rica, Mexico, and Argentina (Buenos Aires only).
Do you know of other European strains besides Spanish in Dominicans? I know Puerto Rico has had waves of immigration from Corsica, Germany, Ireland, Portugal, Italy, France, etc., in addition to large numbers from Spain, naturally. All were eventually absorbed.
Yes I do know of the various groups that immigrated to DR, I'll reference the book: DOMINICAN CULTURES by Bernardo Vega
The records are not very detailed
-In 1888, a small colony of Europeans (they don't mention what nationality) was established in Sabana de la Mar
-They also mention (in descending order after Spanish immigration) English, Dutch, Danish, N. Americans, Italians, French, Venezuelans, Germans.
A more in depth study reveals that out of Spanish immigrants, a larger percentage actually came from Cuba & PR than Spain itself. Many of the Cuban & Puerto Ricans registered as Spaniards (especially during the 10 years war in Cuba)
The same thing can be said of the English and Danish (mostly from the surrounding Caribbean Islands).
The Dutch came from Curacao and were mostly Sephardic Jews.
These groups all integrated fully into Dominican society, here is an excerpt: "In general, the Italians integrated fully into Dominican society, commonly marrying Dominican women and taking part in religious activities, social clubs, etc." The same for all others.
According to Wikipedia there are 25,000 Dominicans of German ancestry, which is very small when you consider how big the German diaspora population is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_people
lol, I wouldn't even had guessed it was that much.
Arabs (Lebanese, Syrian, Palestinians) visibly impacted Dominican culture, there are some traditional dishes that I though were native but really came via the Middle East.
By the way, Dominicans call these people 'Turcos" (Turks) which confused the hell out of me for awhile (I saw no historical evidence of Turkish immigration to DR) until I came across why, these were Christian Arabs fleeing their homeland when it was under the Ottoman Empire.
Joined: 30 Mar 2005 {Posts: 1047 } Location: New Jersey
Posted: Mon 14 Apr 2008 01:50 Post subject:
CIMMERIAN wrote:
By the way, Dominicans call these people 'Turcos" (Turks) which confused the hell out of me for awhile (I saw no historical evidence of Turkish immigration to DR) until I came across why, these were Christian Arabs fleeing their homeland when it was under the Ottoman Empire.
Hah -- that is interesting! I knew a Dominican girl who briefly ran an antiques shop in Hasbrouck Heights, New Jersey (where I work). She was enjoyable to talk with, so we used to chat often, either in her shop or while walking (on my lunch hour). When we discussed our respective ancestries, she mentioned that a paternal great-grandfather was a Turk who wasn't from Turkey. She said she couldn't elaborate further. I assumed he was a Turk from another European country, as there are some in Greece, Romania, Hungary, Yugoslavia, Germany, etc. But what you said above may offer a better explanation. Perhaps he was a Christian Lebanese, Syrian, etc. who was lumped into the "Turco" category.
Thanks for the above data on European immigration to the Dominican Republic. I see it is similar to Puerto Rico and Cuba in terms of European immigration.
CIMMERIAN have you ever met a Dominican with a German last name ?
No, I don't recall any Dominican with a Germanic sounding surname.
I've met some with English, French, Italian, and Arabic (Hispanicized of course) but don't recall any in German.
There is a sizeable community of European ex-pats (retirees, businessmen, etc.) and tourist which include Germans.
I believe the LatinAmerican southern cone countries of Argentina,Uruguay,Chile,Southern Brazil have sizeable German descendants.
What set's Dominican Republic apart from the other Spanish Caribbean Islands of Cuba & Puerto Rico is that it's history is filled with "white" flight (due to wars with Haiti & Spain)rather than immigration.
By the way, Dominicans call these people 'Turcos" (Turks) which confused the hell out of me for awhile (I saw no historical evidence of Turkish immigration to DR) until I came across why, these were Christian Arabs fleeing their homeland when it was under the Ottoman Empire.
Hah -- that is interesting! I knew a Dominican girl who briefly ran an antiques shop in Hasbrouck Heights, New Jersey (where I work). She was enjoyable to talk with, so we used to chat often, either in her shop or while walking (on my lunch hour). When we discussed our respective ancestries, she mentioned that a paternal great-grandfather was a Turk who wasn't from Turkey. She said she couldn't elaborate further. I assumed he was a Turk from another European country, as there are some in Greece, Romania, Hungary, Yugoslavia, Germany, etc. But what you said above may offer a better explanation. Perhaps he was a Christian Lebanese, Syrian, etc. who was lumped into the "Turco" category.
Thanks for the above data on European immigration to the Dominican Republic. I see it is similar to Puerto Rico and Cuba in terms of European immigration.
Yes, Arabs (Syrians, Lebanese, Palestinians) came into DR and were all lumped under the 'Turco" label by the average folk. Traditionally, Muslim immigration was discouraged, most of these were Christians.
I think Cuba received the most immigration of Spaniards from Galicia & Canary Islands. There were so many of these Spaniards from Galicia than to many Cubans (to this day) Gallego (a Galician) is used to to describe all Spaniards regardless of which area they're from.
Joined: 30 Mar 2005 {Posts: 1047 } Location: New Jersey
Posted: Mon 14 Apr 2008 02:00 Post subject:
CIMMERIAN wrote:
I believe the LatinAmerican southern cone countries of Argentina,Uruguay,Chile,Southern Brazil have sizeable German descendants.
Yes indeed. I have read of this many times, and a former poster here from Chile confirmed this. He said that the majority of the Germans have intermarried with the rest of the population, which is normal for Latin America. Actually, it is normal for the New World, period.
CIMMERIAN wrote:
What set's Dominican Republic apart from the other Spanish Caribbean Islands of Cuba & Puerto Rico is that it's history is filled with "white" flight (due to wars with Haiti & Spain)rather than immigration.
I've read of this. Didn't most of the Whites from D.R. who left flee to Cuba? In a sense, one could argue that there was a "white flight" from Cuba to the U.S. as well, even though it wasn't "racial" in nature, and even though there are still large numbers of European-looking Cubans in Cuba.
I believe the LatinAmerican southern cone countries of Argentina,Uruguay,Chile,Southern Brazil have sizeable German descendants.
Yes indeed. I have read of this many times, and a former poster here from Chile confirmed this. He said that the majority of the Germans have intermarried with the rest of the population, which is normal for Latin America. Actually, it is normal for the New World, period.
CIMMERIAN wrote:
What set's Dominican Republic apart from the other Spanish Caribbean Islands of Cuba & Puerto Rico is that it's history is filled with "white" flight (due to wars with Haiti & Spain)rather than immigration.
I've read of this. Didn't most of the Whites from D.R. flee to Cuba? In a sense, one could argue that there was a "white flight" from Cuba to the U.S. as well, even though it wasn't "racial" in nature, and even though there are still large numbers of European-looking Cubans in Cuba.
Yes, most of the white families from D.R. fled to Cuba, Puerto Rico & Venezuela in various waves.
Between 1791-1809 , Santo Domingo suffered battles between French, Haitian, English and Spanish armies.
By 1820 population was approx. 70,000
The first wave of white flight happened when Santo Domingo was ceded to France in 1795.
Second wave when Toussaint L'Ouveture invaded in 1801.
Third wave when Dessalines invaded in 1805. Haitians under Dessalines tried to expel the French garrison stationed in Santo Domingo since Napoleans invasion of 1802, failing that his troops massacred hundreds of Creole & Spanish familiers as they withdrew. Many fled the island, convinced that if Haitians ruled they would wipeout Santo Domingo's population.
Then again in 1822, when Haitian leader Boyer invaded and occupied Santo Domingo it was made illegal for whites to own any lands.
My source is 'History of the Caribbean" by Frank Moya Pons.
By the way, the above is a very delicate subject and by no means is this meant to be taken as any anti-Haitian propaganda, this is history we are talking about.
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