If you choose to read about this research, you should keep four points firmly in mind: (1) The information is rated "M". Reading it can be hazardous to your posting privileges. (2) The Black-White test score gap is real. (3) The Black-White test score gap has serious social consequences for the United States. (4) Give weight to the raw data, but do not give as much weight to researchers' conclusions.
I agree with what you have said here. Unfortunately, these tests scores are real and are not going away. If anything, more testing will be done.
In my state, it used to be when I started college, the 1980's, the state university system had to take you...maybe with remedials, and of course , failling meant you were out. It changed during that decade and the state universities had challenged this, won, and fixed it so that one had to be in a certain percentile to enter the university.
For grade school children, testing is here to stay. For stats between White/Black kids, it is really a bad and unfair stat in my opinion. I do believe in testing to a point. I believe, as far as groups are concerned, socio-economic level is the real divider. I know, being a school teacher, poor inner -city or rural White children's living conditions are not that of rich, upper-middle or , middle-middle class White children. Same for Blacks who are poor inner-city vs. their Black wealthy counterparts.
Rich is rich. Poor is poor.
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Look up National Association for the Education of Young Children and search for testing of students. The NAEYC is like the headquarters for Early Childhood Education. It does not support standardized testing on very young children.
Last edited by Creole GAL on Sat 23 Jun 2007 16:41; edited 1 time in total
I read it here fwsweet. I have studided it. It is a big part of my profession. It is an on-going debate and discussion. It is a factor that is here to stay and is here as another dividing factor. I do not agree with it. I know it is not as simple as I wish it were and in my opinion, I think it is not accurate. I agree with you on your point.
Many things are not so simple, such as the ethnicity choices on applications, however they are here to stay. They are used for stats. They may be inaccurate, in my opinion, but they are used.
Joined: 16 Jan 2008 {Posts: 5 } Location: Texas-via-Alaska
Posted: Wed 23 Jan 2008 18:22 Post subject:
Hi every one i wanted to say how much i enjoy the ODR forum i have been obsessed with American history since i was a child (when i say american history i mean all of the american hemisphere) I remember reading a book many years ago about the Cherokee people before the removal to the west called Trail of Tears by John Ehle. There was a chapter in there that dealt with some German Movarian educators who were given permission by the Cherokee government to set up school in their Nation. This was during the same time when Cherokees had African Slaves but the Cherokees allowed African slave children to also attend classes. At some point the children were tested and the Movarians were very suprised to find that the Cherokee children tested as high or higher than many white schools in the mainstream of America did. What i remembered most about this was that the Author of this book pointed out that the African slave children scored just as high as the "cherokee" children did but the German Movarians always chose to ignore this fact. Whenever i have heard disscussions about the difference in school test performance between groups of people (mostly black and white) i have always remembered this chapter in this book and wondered if it holds any kind of value in the recent debates in the U.S. about nurture versus nature. I need to get my hands on that book again. I apologise for not quoting directly from the book.
I was reading some of the more scholarly points and there are times when the endpoint of a specific study is not necesarily the final stage of inquiry or analysis.
Asians consistantly score above 'black' and 'white' groups but Asians are not consistantly represented in positions of power (as defined by the majority) nor are they governors, mayors or such.
If anything, test scores can show where deficiencies exist within an educational system. Now it seems test score have become another urbanl sociological tool. I still say testing is good on its own merit but its use today is a horror story!
Why don't we see more Asian vs white test score gaps?
Take the group known as rich regardless of ethnicity and stratify by ethnicity, do test score make any difference and what importance are they when the group are all rich!
Recent Forbes magazine on the rich in USA and how many of the recent ones did not finish university.
Dittos to Senor Sweet: Look at the raw data but watch out for incongrous conclusions! I still canot spel corectly!
The black American IQ score is 88, and the White for all Europeans, is 99.
However, there is a simple explanation for this.
1. In my opinion, stereotype threat accounts for 10 points maximum. This is based off a study I read showing such an affect. I think then, that the black IQ is really somewhere up at 98 or close.
2. Second, blacks are probably less intelligent because of environmental factors such as low quality early childhood rearing. This would account for another 2 point difference.
Thus, the potential black IQ is probably 100, in my opinion.
Note: the mulatto IQ is 97 when meaned against the white control groups in 5 mulatto/white IQ studies. This is for UK/US/Germany. Its interesting that this is never mentioned, however. I think its for political reasons.
I suspect that the real mulatto IQ may be as high as 98 or 99, and that a loss of 1 to 2 points is due to poor environmental conditions among a small minority of mulattos. Then again, the mulatto IQ may be 100, or in fact higher, even with the affect of steroetype threat.
Also, these are all mulattos raised in the white community or combination of communities ( in UK ), so I couldnt say what the IQ is for mulattos raised in the black community. However, research shows little or no difference in intelligence ( during the 1970s ) between mulattos and negros in the black community, so I suspect they have equal intelligence.
Note: the mulatto IQ is 97 when meaned against the white control groups in 5 mulatto/white IQ studies. This is for UK/US/Germany.
Could you please provide a citation to your source? I have never seen any U.S. study that attempts to correlate test-score with actual admixture--just with ethnic self-identity. In fact, the only studies I have seen that even consider actual admixture deal with various diseases (obesity, diabetes, melanoma, etc.).
Note: the mulatto IQ is 97 when meaned against the white control groups in 5 mulatto/white IQ studies. This is for UK/US/Germany.
Could you please provide a citation to your source? I have never seen any U.S. study that attempts to correlate test-score with actual admixture--just with ethnic self-identity. In fact, the only studies I have seen that even consider actual admixture deal with various diseases (obesity, diabetes, melanoma, etc.).
Hi Frank,
sources can be found here in another thread on the site:
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